Headtube comparison!
Wow, so now I know how to get a response from you guys. Just put something up that is different…just kidding guys! Sunday wouldn’t be Sunday if we didn’t do that, right? This is really good, I appreciate hearing from you guys just make it constructive which it mostly was.
I want to clarify something, this is just a prototype that we are testing. It won’t be available on frames unless its proven, okay! With that in mind, I want to show you a comparison of the headtube on my bike with a ’shaved’ headtube. Notice how the original style looks like it hangs over wile the other style is less bulky looking. There is a definite defined step from the headtube to the fork while the ’shaved’ has a smoother step.
What about a direct shot to the bearing? Well which is cheaper to replace, the bearing or a frame. If you dent your headtube there, it won’t ever be completely round again. So eliminating the part that will bend sounds logical, right? I understand there is a little personal preference here, but I just wanted to show the headtube styles together. As always please comment.
g-sport george set me straight on this one on bikeguide so now i’m stoked on the idea. i’d like to see a shot of the top of it with a headset it, i fear the top cap will look goofy.
andyi think what you guys are doing is amazing, especially ian schwartzs frame…i ride one of the pre wave frames and i think its brilliant…but these newer ones look orgasmic…keep up the good work…oh and i love the built in pivotal post…
scottIm willing to try it if its proven good after testing. Would 75 HA’s be something to wait for in 2009, or sometime through 2008? Thats the only thing setting me off right now.
Anonymousjust get a heavy rider and test the hell out of that frame
AnonymousI would be happy to test one out for you guys
Gmoneylooks sweet! and the idea to “protect” the headtube is awesome… one more thing like integrated seatclamp and stuff that makes bmx easyer… just great, in two years, every bike will have shaved headtube!
just can’t wait the new frames… brakeless!!!
Hurray for JimC!
French riderI think that shaved headtube is a great idea. If you some how manage to dent those built-in cups that the bearings sit in on a non-shaved you are so screwed. Props, the frames look great.
aI think its great. Headset bearings the same color as the frame would be cool.
Anonymousit looks sort of weird i have the wave frame and this new frame is nice like the seat post but the frame now looks like a cheap complete bike frame but i guess its ok i think it would look better with the old look,thats just my say
Anonymousi think so to it does look different and sort of tacky
AnonymousDont like the new look at all and i think that sunday wont sell as many of these frames as there old ones
AnonymousIm still not a fan of that shaved headtube. Can’t see having the bearings exposed as a good thing.
Also there is a strip of black between the frame and fork, which doesn’t make as smooth of a color change if one was to get a kit.
If you were to do the shaved headtubes, it would be cool to get some headsets with the same paint.
AnonymousLove the frames. But I dont know about the headtube.I like the intergrated look.It looks real cleane when you cant see the bearings, now with the baring showing it almoust look like the old school cups with baerings.Your frame are real unique comepared to alout of other comp. out there.I know you will do whats best for SUNDAY.I cant wait to get my hands on the new fork with the biult in race. Now that sweet idea.
Willya i think that is is a bag look and that your head set would get super messed up a say stick to the intergrated style with no bearings showing
Anonymouslearn how to spell but you are right dont like it
Anonymoushate the new head tubes now im buying the dehart frame insted of this sunday is going down hill sorry
Anonymous“The “skirt” round an integrated headset does NOTHING. Why shave the thickness of the down-tube and other tubes that work really hard, while ignoring this entirely pointless weight?
IF your headset bearing ever comes into contact with the “skirt” then something is seriously wrong, your headset would need to be very loose or something… and all that the “skirt” would be doing is helping cause damage to the frame….
G.”
http://www.bikeguide.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127392
andyi have to admit the more i look at it the more i like it, the exposed baring does raise some concerns,BUT, i do like how its remenicent of the now “old school” press in head sets (good memories there. and it IS innovative. my only concern is ,since im a heavy street rider , doesnt the “cup” portion of the integrated head tube provide some structrual support , and releive some stress on the bearing? other wise im all for it, if it will hold up to hoder, taylor , and jim, i’ll trust it. if you want to sell one of these ill buy it indefinately and tell you how it holds up.
The Bible City Butcherhi,
the question is, how slod this new/old system is. In my opinion it was one of the best improvements ever to hook the frames up with internal headsets.
despite a chris king headset i destroyed almost every external one.
greetings from germany
AnonymousI thought the Sunday guys would know better, this kind of thing cannot work.
AnonymousWill your normal headtube frame be available in black (but with all the other 08 updates)?
Jerry, trying againif you read what george wrote when internal h/s first came out and what he has said about sunday’s hollow drop outs, and then look at this it’s pretty obvious he is designing or at least co-designing sunday’s frames
Anonymoustest it, if its fine, go for it!
Anonymousi see what your saying about hte dent thing but ive never even herd of anyone doing that and just shave it up a ittle not so the hole bering is out, i love everything elsa on the new frame though but would never buy it because i dont want to get new bearings everyother weekrvdcdlo
Anonymousthe real question here is ‘is it named after the arcade fire song or the shins jawn of the same name?
du-laythe new sunday frames now suck i hate the headtube i have the wave frame and i think that they should just use the old head tube, this is really making me not like sunday now
Anonymousanyone who says internal while talking about bmx frames is dumb
iftugp
Fabiani think they are doing both styles of headtubes. so all you whiners can just buy the regular one.
Anonymousi am crying now sunday why! why! why! would you do this
AnonymousI can’t say I like the new head tube. However I do support new ideas and advancment of tech. I think if I had a choice I’d go with the normal HT though.
Awesome refinements for 2008 though.
It’s too bad you can only ride one bike cause their are SO many good frames out on the market and I love to ride/try out. I do think Sunday is at the top though!
Minus BMX Allanbest riders,
Anonymousbest commitment to bmx,
best support to his riders,
best products,
end of!!!!
trust jim c on this
he has never let any1 down so far!!!
good point i just dont like the new look but if it works then fine i will buy the frame because it is strong and good people make them
Anonymous^^^Let me DOWN, so get your facts right!!! NO GYRO TABS LIKE YOU PROMISED!!!
Anonymouswhen are the vinnie bars out and what are the demensions?
Johndont worry jim, people are upset your frame isnt trendy enough. keep being inovative
emerson alexsunday was my favorite company but not any more
AnonymousDon´t give a fuck about haters…
20inchsoohotridenowAnd…
…20inch ian…please!
i think every one has good points and bad points about the frame the frame is very strong like any sunday and has a good warranty but i think that this new head tube is a mistake not just because it looks bad but you could mess your bearings up bad and every one dont be a dick about an opion thats just what i think
Anonymousif your going with the “shaved” headtube why bother even going with an intergated? it looks like the it has cups is all, and if riders are managing to get dents in that area, something is up with there riding, or there not putting the bike together properly.
I trust your guys judgment with frame design. But sometime kids get way picky with the way a bike looks and I can diffently see that being a problem.
AnonymousI dont care about looks, but I just think the old design workes fine so why change. I will definately be buying a sunday black wave frame, but not if this new design on the headtube is the only option.
Just seems pointless to me. I have never seen anyone denting the headtube before…hope he goes back to normal so I can get this frame..
Anonymousya i dont see the point either it looks like shit
Anonymousat what point did you people stop paying attention to jim when he said this head tube is in the “PROTO-TYPE” phase? meaing its NOT an option yet. probably wont till after the ‘08 models come out.
The Bible City ButcherOkay does everyone know what the term PROTOTYPE means? According to dictionary.com, the 5th meaning is
“to create the prototype or an experimental model of: to prototype a solar-power car.”
This is an experimental model that we are testing. And I’ve said before that this will not be available unless it is proven. If we don’t do stuff like this then we will never have innovative designs. There would never have been hollow drops, waved down tubes, threadless headsets, 990 Brakes, gyros, linear cables, pivotal seats, freecoasters, plastic pedals, cassette hubs, 9tooth drivers and just about everything else on a bike.
It is really disconcerting that people are so up in arms about something we are testing. IF IT WORKS WE WILL OFFER THE FRAMES IN BOTH STYLES. Besides I personally think the frame looks a lot smoother with the shaved headtube than with the non shaved. The other way is too bulky for me and I’d rather protect a frame than a bearing.
Let’s get everyone on the same page, integrated and internal headsets are two different things. BMX doesn’t use an internal headset, we only use integrated. Everyone seems to be good at the internet, so go search it.
Okay, I’m going to reread the comments and add some more words later. I was at a wedding this weekend and I was visiting Ryder in Canada yesterday, so I’ve been able to comment now.
Sunday!Holy moly Jim!! I get what you’re trying to achieve and am down with the overall theory except….
Won’t the bearing be supported less than in a traditional H-tube? The best thing about my frame (and yup, it is a Sunday) is the sweet feeling front end.
How much bearing remains in the H-tube and is it enough? I’d hate to think it was just presseure from the H-set holding the damn thing in place!!
MOSCOthe only thing holding the headset in place anyway is pressure. if you don’t have your load bolt tight enough you get that wiggle when you shake your bars back and forth (this is the bearings moving around in the “integrated cups”.
someone correct me if i am off here
avinnie bars?
AnonymousOkay, Vinnie bars are scheduled to come out by Thanksgiving. The main idea behind them is an 8 inch bar with a smaller box. Vinnie felt the Triumphs spun slower, so we went with a smaller box area. The width changed to 26 inch because of the smaller box. There is 12 degrees backsweep and 2 degrees of upsweep. I wish to have photos of them, but they got stolen at Interbike.
Sunday!thanks,
jim
Someone needs to tell Odyssey that it’s not an “internal” headset. They messed it up in the Ben Ward bike check.
Bunky“The other way is too bulky for me and I’d rather protect a frame than a bearing.” well jim think if you use the old style your frame is fine and your bearings have you thought about that i mean come on do even know what you are saying bad prototype
AnonymousIntegrated headset bearings ONLY fit on the conical seat anyway, so I cant see any problem with removing the excess material that surrounds it for no apparent reason.
In person these frames look sweet with the shaved headtube, much neater and sleaker than the old style… but since BOTH will be available I really dont see why it should be an issue anyway…
Anonymousthanks jim! i cant wait for those bars.
johnI personally wouldn’t buy the shaved frame if it made it to production. I just don’t like the looks of it.
But just a suggestion: either ask the companies that make integrated headsets to make them look worthy of being exposed, or introduce a Sunday integrated HS. Otherwise the looks of the shaved frame will apparently turn potential buyers away.
Prozakki think the frames look dope. no point in bitching one here saying “sundays’ through” and what not. has anyone ever heard of constructive critisism. if you think its a bad idea then give your input on why but not knock the company on a shaved headtube. jim i think your doing a great job and you def. dont need too defend your company against a bunch of 16 year olds that live with mom and dad. mad props from vancouver
helldogPaulI’m 37, but not talking bad about the company just because I don’t like a prototype headtube either.
ProzakkAnd owned my own home since 19.
ProzakkWill Ians frame come in the same colors as the 08 wave or different ones?
AnonymousIan’s frame is coming in white and the rustproof black. There isn’t any other colors planned, but I am not ruling out them.
Sunday!thanks,
jim
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work… The crown race has even less support if you calculate the area of surface in contact. The bearings have a bigger area of surface then the crown race since the diameter is bigger and i never heard any comments about a crown race not having enough support. The only way i see you could have a problem with that is by having a loose headset.
As some one else said earlier on of the inconvenient would be that the top cap would look like shit over that, but that can be resolver pretty easily by making a Sunday headset with a different top cap.
Good job jim & company, I'm pretty stoked on your new line. If you could make a black bike in 21 with removable gyro tabs that would be sick!
Alouhaha sweet idea dudeeeezzz, a mate of mine did this with a couple custom frames he welded up a while back haha.
Anonymoushey i made 2 prototype frames in new zealand early this year with that same headtube design…we called it the exposedset. i showed it to david from flybikes as soon as i finished it. there are some tricky things you have to do to make it work properly and not chew up the bottom bearing every few weeks
if you want me to email you some pics of our fromes, my email address is ugrd@yahoo.com.
thanks
Anonymousi think the shaved head tube is an awesome idea.. im sure if it works out all companies will be doin it to help and lighten the frame…. i cant wait until this comes out im buying it the first day hah..i personnally do like integrated myself but it works. i was wonder if i could et an idea of when this frame is gonna come out and the price
Anonymoushttp://www.chrisking.com/headsets/hds_index.html
see the link at the bottom of this page.
arii hope to see this prototype in full production, each updated frame keeps getting stronger and better
sonnywhat would u hit ur headtube on?? like the weel and the bars like make it impossible for it to hit the ground??
the dude