Sunday Model-C
So, Interbike has come and go for another year. Thankfully it will be another year before we do it all again and unfortunately its only a year before we have to do it again. Either way I wanted to take this week and talk about some of the products we showed at our booth.
New this year is Sunday’s version of a cruiser called the Model-C, but luckily it doesn’t come anywhere close to riding like a traditional racing cruiser rather if feels more like a larger version of a normal 20″ BMX bike. Along with this frame, we made 24umph bars (7.25″ rise) and Morning 24.1 forks which are just Morning 2.1 forks built into cruiser forks.
To be honest it was an experiment to see if we could make a cruiser more freestyle. So, immediately after Interbike, we put the frames together and discovered that our intuitions were correct. You could do basically every trick on it that you could do on a normal BMX bike. It was even possible to loop out with a rear end at 15.25″. Rolling fakie was way more stable due to the longer wheelbase and the headtube at 74.5 degrees. Jumping was made easier by the larger wheel size and the longer wheelbase. We took it to varied terrain including 7ft minis, cement parks, wooden skateparks and my local college campus. Did slides, whips, jumped hips, manualed, picked, grinded, fuf-ed, spun, spun more, hangovered, hang-5ed, nose wheelied, crankslide, doubles runs, but alas no flairs or flips yet. It’s been a lot of fun and it’s more fun seeing the smiles on people’s faces after they would take it for a test ride.
DIMENSIONS:
Top Tube 21 Rear End 15.25
HT 74.5 ST 71
BB Height 13.75″
FEATURES:
Mid BB, post-weld machining of the BB and HT, angled brake mounts, traditional laser cut dropouts, Non-Waved downtube, Director fork styled wishbone, Black Magic rustproof coating and 41Thermal heat treating,
We are still in the testing stages, so these options and dimensions might change. The frames, forks and bars will be available sometime in the spring. There isn’t any release date set yet. Any input then leave it in the comments section!
looks nice.
Anonymousi’m 6’4″, would this be good for me?
AnonymousI RODE THE GREEN ONE!!, that thing was pretty sweet Jim, i think in the future i’d get one but i wouldn’t want to scratch it, i’d just ride it around town and what not. good job sir.
Josh Camerononly 21″ tt? thought for sure these would be longer. tell me SOMETHING is coming in 21.25 this year. please!?
AnonymousMake the chainstays shorter and i might actually buy one…
andiyeah make the chainstays shorter then put 20″ wheels on it….uhhh wait…
AnonymousIf it had a longer toptube and shorter chainstays i’d definately buy one…
Anonymouslooks good apart from the short toptube – what’s the point? when you can get numerous 20″ frames in 21.25″, 21.5″ and even a couple in 22″ – surely the whole point of a cruiser is that it’s supposed to be bigger/more comfortable?
Anonymouslonger TT, at least 22″
shorter stays around 14.5
everything else looks spot on.
Anonymousthere’s a lot more to geometry than an arbitrarily decided stay and tt length… the only thing that SOUNDS bad about this bike is having to wait until spring.
mebig props to Sunday for putting something on the market that’s been lacking!
for reals? i ove the idea, but i already ride a 21TT, so why would i ride a baby sized 24″? when fit, volume, redline and WTP all make criusers THE RIGHT SIZE? at least make a fixie frame!!!!!!
Anonymousi’m 6′ and would love one of these in 22-22.25″ or so. The CS could be shorter, but since I just ride trails, that’s not my biggest concern. The BB seems kinda high.. like the bike might be more top heavy than necessary.
AnonymousOtherwise the thing looks beautiful. Bravo to Sunday for trying to revive the 24″ bmx. I can’t wait to see the final version.
BB is very high. 12.5 bb feels nice on 24′s. just fyi…
thanks for pushing this jim c. its so rad to get more 24 options, especially haz lites.
Anonymousbb does seem crazy high – which is probaly why it rides so like a twenty, could perhaps shorten the chainstays and lower the bb to get same effect – 14.5cs 12.75bb? – and maybe 75 degree head angle… right or wrong, i reckon alot of people won't buy this purely cos of the long stays. I agree wholeheartedly with the toptube comments, would've thought most of the people looking to buy a 24" are doing so cos they find a 20" too cramped. I reckon it should be at least 22" (or have 2 sizes, 21.75" & 22.25") – again short stays would offset the increase to overall wheelbase, retaining agility….rant over! On a more positive note it's great to see such a legit company as sunday taking bigger wheels seriously – theres a gapping whole in the market waiting to be filled….
AnonymousIf you want a 22+” TT and a lower BB (which feels terrible if you’re not racing), you can already buy that from Standard, Supercross, Staats, Kappa, Welham, Redline, DK, and about forty other companies you already aren’t buying it from.
If you want this, no one else is making it. You can get more sitting-and-pedaling room on it with a longer-reach stem or a slight-layback seatpost, if you want to sit and pedal, but that’s not what it’s for.
Can’t wait to buy one. Thanks for bringing it out, Jim.
AnonymousDear Sunday,
Never, ever, ever, ever make a fixie frame.
People bitched when Tony Hawk decided to put his name on a line of bikes. Why? Because it takes away from profits of “true” bmx brands.
Now let’s pretend we all ride fixies here, and this BMX company now makes fixie frames and are trying to crack in to the market- just like Tony Hawk did with BMX.
HMMMMMMM….
RyanSome of you are creating double standards. Other people aren’t allowed to come in to BMX, but WE are totally allowed to go in to other markets. Fuck that.
Ok, this is what I like to hear. Let me ask this question about top tube length. Why do you need it so long? Is it for a comfort reason or a freestyle performance reason? The bike is intended for freestyle and not really for riding around on a casual stroll.
I’m confused by the desire for a longer top tube, but a shorter rear end. It seems like it would be counter productive. What is the goal here? More room, more responsiveness or both. In my opinion, it seems that if you lengthen the front end by an inch and only shorten the rear end by a half an inch then you’d loose out. Sure you’d have more room, but the front end won’t come up as quick.
The higher BB allows for the front end to come up easier and it makes manualing easier. It allows you to be up above the back as opposed to being set back over the rear wheel.
One of the weird things about getting into this area of riding is that the frame design isn’t figured out yet. Not that BMX is pefected, but it seems like there is such a difference of opinion. Coming from the BMX direction, I’m for steeper head tubes, higher BBs and no suspension on forks. I can definitely see a size a little bigger than 21, but for me being 5’8″ I couldn’t go much more and have it functional.
Keep up the opinions!
thanks,
Sunday!jim
Ryan,
Sunday!Point taken. The Tony Hawk thing is weird. The only saving grace is that he is a skateboarder making something that isn’t even close to skating. While we are a bike company, so it might be logical to make a different form of bike. I’d like to build one, but there is a lot to learn before I’d do it. However there is definitely some techniques we use that might help in the fixie world. Don’t look for us to make one anytime too soon though.
there needs to be a variety of size like the 20" frames, but starting from a higher standard ie; 21", 21.5" & 22" – but I would argue the longer tt's are more important as i would of thought it's mainly 6ft plus guys who would consider a cruiser – If your under 6ft you may as well just ride one of the numerous twentys that'd fit perfectly. The other factor to take into account is foot/tyre clearance on barspins & x-ups…bigger guys have bigger feet…
Anonymousyou could start my making a 21 & a 22 and see which sells more, or if you want to test the market with just one size – at least 21.5
oh yeah & a brakeless option would be pretty sweet….
your right that a standard geo needs to be set like with the 20's (and who better to do that than sunday)but size def need to be varied (20's go all the way from 19-22)
I’m getting one when I retire
TMLTechI[‘m really siked on these. I could definitely see myself buying one for commuting, but still being able to do normal BMX stuff on it.
Van CharlesJim – thanks for posting your comments. It’s really cool to hear the ideas behind this concept.
Bill SPut me down as someone who’d like to see a longer TT (21.5/21.75) available. I’d also like to see a lower BB, but then I prefer a low BB on my 20″.
there definately needs to be more bikes for us ganglier gentlemen! seeing as people are generally getting taller think of it as a pre-emptive strike!Pretty miffed about the tt length, was all exited about the prospect of a sunday “street bruiser”, but being 6’6″ – i need at least a 22″tt. Macneil’s Deuce Deuce has been selling well for the past few years so there must be a few of us gigantic freestylers about! Also why no wave downtube? surely thats what makes a sunday? Will the frame be built to take the abuse of the 20′s – ie: drops to flat, ledge grinding and temper tantrums! Have to say i really hope this takes off…
Anonymousblack magic,
Anonymouswave downtube,
21.75tt,
14.75cs,
75 h/a,
brakeless…
SOLD!!!
omg these things are completely amazing!!i would bike one of these any day and i hate the larger bikes.
A++++
i can see aaron ross tearin it up on one of these babys with all his colors on it lol.
And am i the only one that noticed the odyssey hazard lites on these???
brentFantastic, why has no-one else done this – sounds amazing – no more funny looks and “isn’t that bike too small for you” comments!
bobmore pics!
Apart from the high BB; it doesn't sound all that different from the fit,wtp & subrosa cruisers – like others have said i reckon it needs the short-stays & 75 h/a to set it apart and make it proper hardcore!
henryAlso I'd have to agree that a 21" toptube on a 24 wheeled bike seems far too short.
Also, to be honest; the puke green and old school looking silver don't really do it for me…
Just got a 21.5″ fit lurch, why would i want to ride bigger wheels with a shorter toptube?
Anonymouswow, sooooo psyched – just don’t call it a cruiser….
Anonymouslonger TT for toe clearance ie 22″+. i ride a tonic fab 24″ w/ 22 tt and 14.25 cs. x-ups are doable but really tight.
Jim – how are bar spins and x-ups feel on the model C??
Anonymoushey Jim/sunday
tobySounds amazing from what you described (nose wheelys?!)
But please please please offer a long(22")option for all us tall guys.
Maybe a steeper head tube too, thats what the new breed of 29wheeled MTB's have done to offset the larger wheels.
Also I reckon you should find a compromise by shortening the stays and lowering the BB – 14.25cs(slammed) and 12.75"bb.
Do 3 sizes – 21",21.5" & 22" – everybodys happy
definately exited by the high bb, makes so much sense. Love the way all the geo is just proportionally bigger than a 20 (except the TT…)
nutmanShould be more street though – black & brakeless biatch!
Do some Night fork 24s aswell…
…and 4 piece bars!
id expect at least 21.5 for a cruiser…
id be into 22+, 21 is pretty ridiculous
fedtomDamn, that must be cramped. They look really awesome though. Too bad they look like they’ll cost $1,000+.
binkI just hope it’s built for abuse – looks a bit racy/trailsy for street riding – otherwise i might be tempted…
AnonymousWhy no wave?
just think of all the extra stuff you’ll be able to roll over….atomic kittens….giant headlice….fingernail sculptures…etc,etc!
AnonymousI hope there will be some sort of reasonable priced complete when it is released in the spring.
DJ Burt Reynoldsgo really radical and kick start 22inch wheeled bikes – check out faction bmx! Between Sunday & Odyssey all the parts would be covered – perfect compromise.
tim22tt
14.25cs
12.75bb
75ha
71sa
22 INCH WHEELS!!!
Longer cockpit (22+), Shorter stays(sub 15″), lower BB (13″) – perfect – the next BIG thing!!!
adam24!I definately swap my 08 NS capital for this…if it was longer…however, the new 09 capital has 73ha, 21.5tt, 14.25cs and higher than axle bb – not so different from this….hmmmmm
adam24!Whats r the weights?
adam24!what are the weights?
adam24!ooops!
adam24!cool concept. if mountian bikers started showing up to skateparks on these id have a lot more respect for them…
mikemastronicruisers definately carry this weird stigma of being looked upon as oldman/past it/dad bikes & yet loads of kids ride these ridiculous 24" mtbs with crazy slack head angles and 2 inch gaps between the top of the tyre and the forks. Would be great if Sunday could wake people up to the fact that if you want to ride a big BMX (and do freestyle tricks), ride a big BMX not a converted MTB!!!
AnonymousAlthough I would of thought inorder to sway the mtbmxers u really need to go all out on the nimbleness factor – give it a high BB & short stays, whatever you do it will never be as nimble as a 20 but at least go out all guns blazing!
Longer TT is also a must in my 6'3" opinion! Why would short guys wanna ride a 24 for freestyle? surely the whole freestyle 24 thing only makes sense if your over 6ft, otherwise just stick with a 20….
Ok, this is all really interesting. I’m going to post a few more photos of the bikes and maybe some riding shots.
There’s way too much to answer, but here goes. X-ups are tough because your foot hits when you are going a topside X-up, but downside no problem. The funny thing is barspins work totally fine. Your foot must be in a different position. Turndowns are funny too because the wheel hits your shin when you go past 200 degrees or so.
I’ve noticed from the responses that you guys are sort of all over the place in your interests. some want to ride trails, some skatepark and a few street. And the sizes are generally in a range, but I’m totally unsure of the market yet. I’m definitely thinking of making a bigger size in addition to the one I ride. The 21 works completely fine for me. Not really into doing X-ups unless its into a grind and that is the other direction for me. And it nose wheelies and hang 5s like no problem. The bb height probably won’t change because that is what makes it lots of fun and responsive. Keep asking questions and throwing me your thoughts. I’ll try and keep up.
Sunday!thanks,
jim
sunday fixed gear. who wouldn’t want a 41 thermal commuter? tacky colors. single speed. light tight and isn’t intended for freestyle.
AnonymousPLEASE make these jim, i reckon theres a huge untapped market…
nicIMO u should change the colours to odyssey purple rain and aaron ross red – the silver one looks far too old skool/racy
longTT & shortCS FTW! short stays and high bb would make it sooo good for spins & whips! have you done any hop whips or hop trucks on it?
to be honest i'd buy one whatever cos i love sunday and i love 24s
oh yeah & why no wave?
I’m 6’5″ and would definately buy a longer one, currently riding a DK race/trail with 22tt and find even that too cramped!
AnonymousNeeds to be more street – brakeless, shorter stays, matte black & night24s
ridestreetreckon u need at least 3 sizes to cater 2 everyone – can't imagine being happy on a 21 & im only 5'10, but have size 12 feet so i'd probaly hit my foot every time i turned left!
def consider one tho, currently riding a usb (22.2tt) but the thought of high bb & steep head def intriges me…
what do you guys think about buying this as a frame, frame kit or as a complete? Are you guys more into building up the bike or buying it all as one? Let me know.
Sunday!Thanks
Jim
there seems to be a lot of flack from 20″ guys (particularly on bmx forums)… which i don’t understand. it’s not like new school 24s are going to come into their homes and take away their beloved 20″. if you don’t like it, don’t ride/buy it. no guns to the head here. i don’t care for road bikes, but i don’t go around bitching at everyone about them not being “cool” (though i did see a dude yesterday do a wicked no hand wheelie on a fixxie that was pretty sick).
what i will complain about is having to wait until spring to buy one of these. the geo is SO close to what i’ve been ready to slap $$$ down on to have custom built… now someone is stepping up and planning on producing it. awesome. except for the waiting part. want it NOW
meoh… and if available as a frame only or frame kit, awesome!
seems like the other 24s on the market are only completes, with sub-par components to go along with their old school geometry…
building a bike with the components i choose (and/or already have) is preferable to me.
meI agree – do a frame & fork kit. I'm not to sure about the bars, they seem a bit tall for a 24", I'd likely stick with my S&M Cruiser Slams.
Bill SAlso – what gearing do you have on those?
-Bill
Jim – in response to how you would sell this:
Seeing as how you’re one of the few companies doing this with a 24, I think selling it as a kit would be best. People will have to get forks and there isn’t a big market for them… Might as well help them out and offer the forks with the frame.
I wouldn’t buy this as a complete though. Something this serious would have to get my personal build.
LocalRedHeadThe frames looks amazing. I have been hoping that someone would make something like this.
Nice job on how you are handling this. Opening yourselves up to feedback from riders. Also, the feedback people are giving is great. Keep it coming.
I think selling it as a frame and fork kit would be a good idea. Other components are more of a personal preference. Although the bars look perfect. I prefer taller bars on a 24.
I hope this goes into production and I can afford one if it does.
Cheers.
James
JamesLoving it Jim, been waiting so long for someone to produce a serious 24, had resigned myself to going down the hugely expensive custom route.
georgeGdefinately should be just frame, fork & bars – all seperate or maybe frame/fork combo – your Sunday not Haro (no offense Haro)- and this looks to me like a serious bike for serious, committed riders who'd be more likely to want a custom build – let the daydreaming commence! Theres already far to many cut price, cheapo cruisers on the market.
Also i would of thought it'd be easier/cheaper to produce a variety of sizes that way – which i think is a MUST – how many of your 20" frames would you of sold if you only offered one size…
definately no complete.
goldenoldieframe & fork kit would be ace. frames should be like the 20's but proportionally bigger. 2nd wave comes in 20,20.5,20.75,21,21.25
therfore model c should be
21, 21.5, 21.75, 22 and 22.25 or at least 21, 21.5, 22
Brakeless would be cool also – would mark the model c as a legit, hardcore frame.
obviously u guys need to test the water but i can definately see this catching on; especially as alot of riders have more than a few grey hairs but still wanna get radical and seeing as there has been no bmx depression since the early 90's us miggle-age-shredders are only set to increase…
Internal chain tensioners like the wave frames?
goldenoldieOur survey says YES!
Dear Jim/Sunday,
Really exited about the Model C.
Please do this.
I'd put money on other companies following suite – set the trend!
Have you considered steepening the seat angle to improve the foot/tyre clearance issue, not sure how much difference it would make but alot of 24 mtbs have like 72 or 73 degree seat angles…
Lovin' the idea of a high bb but must admit i do share the repeatedly voiced concerns over front & rear end lengths.
This seems like such an opportunity to do something really radical and new, would be a shame to not capitalize on that, half measures avail us nothing and all that…
Thanks for giving us potential customers some input.
Good Luck & best wishes
Dan MeronDan Meron
Thanks to everyone that has offered input, this is rad! Can everyone list locations to where you are located, even just general areas if that is more ideal. I just want to get an idea of where the ideas are coming from to see if there are any trends in specific zones. Thanks again for all the input.-ben
ben wardme: Portland, Oregon…
further helping define the demographic: i’m in my mid 30s, married, have kids, own a house, good career… and can finally afford the toys i wanted when i was a broke teenager. i ride a 20″ Sunday Wave (21″ tt), a mid 80s Redline 20″, a mid 80s Redline cruiser, a 26″ dirt jump bike… recently had a 24″ Black Market Mob… but i desperately want a modern cruiser.
the dimensions listed for the model-c sound great to me… make it and take my money, please
meI’m in my early 20′s, mainly ride street on me deuce deuce BMX, but love pretty much anything with 2wheels and am wanting to ride bigger wheels. I’m from Salisbury, England – hope this helps…
nicI’m 23 from London, 6ft6 and would love to have a bike I could both ride to work on and then to the skatepark after…obviosly there are alot of bikes which look as tho they’d fill this role but all that i’ve tried DJ mtbs, cruisers come up sadly short – so i just ride my twenty to work, then have back ache all day! Rather that than ride a shit bike at the park! If this Sunday rides the way you descibe it could be just what i’m after
timfrom Queens baby, 27 And puttin in werk both on & off the bike.
nutmanI'm from Montreal, Canada.
dan meron33 years of age, fair bit of disposable income and a growing bike collection/obsession!
Ride everything from the roads (on 700c & motorbikes) to the mountains(on full sus 26 & rigid 29) to the street, parks & jumps (on 20 & 26 – and hopefully 24!)
Many thanks for listening to us leymen!
i hope sunday stays away from completes, lower quality parts generally found in completes tarnish a brand’s name . cheap hubs / headsets / wheels / really bring a good frame down .
AnonymousDitto, just look at WTP’s “salt” “brand” YUCK!
AnonymousSundays a legit, highly respected aftermarket brand – keep it that way.
oh – i’m from chicago BTW
AnonymousIf it is a complete with the parts shown on it: WIN!!!!!!!! F’N’ awesome complete!
AnonymousThat’d be real expensive tho, for the money i’d rather custom build it, completes are only good if your bike gets stolen, your skint and just need something to get you rolling.
AnonymousAlso with the high BB i think people are gonna wanna experiment with bar height – id wanna run 8″ bars personally
warsaw, poland
tadelriding a rigid home-grown ns capital street bike for the time being, but am tempted by the desciption of the ride.
looking forward to hearing more
Portland, OR
Jamesnewcastle, UK
tobyModesto, California
ridestreetColumbus Ohio…
But my family is from upstate NY and we are die hard Bills fans.
AnonymousI'm from Brisbane, Australia.
georgeg27 going on 14 (mentally) going on 45 (physically)!
Theres quite a mixed scene here alot of 24s & 26s ridden on street/park as well as the 20s – most of the riders i know are pretty open-minded and alot of my friends are just as exited about an XL sunday as me – especially the taller & older guys…
Quebec, Canada
goldenoldieLate 30s….
Bournemouth, UK (at uni, originally from Liverpool)
adam2420yrs old, mainly ride street on a 24mtbmx, but used to ride the kids bikes – would definately like to see a legit big wheeled BMX, not all that psyched on my current ride (08 ns capital – 21.9tt) but feel too big 4 BMX.
Boston, Mass
bobnew jersey, 25 and already feel too old & beat-up for a 20!
henryRight now I basically alternate between my wtp unified24 – which feels too sluggish and yet weirdly cramped? and my old s2 which hurts too much, hoping the sunday will be the perfect compromise
Glasgow, Scotland (at uni), 19, ride street on a ridgid, brakeless barge, A.K.A – Dmr Transition (24 DJmtb), would most definately swap her 4 one of this svelte beasts!
danny doherty22inch wheels please. if any company can make the idea fly its odyssey/sunday. its like people selling handlebars with either 6inches of rise or 8 inch. wheres the middle choice?! perfect for anyone over 6ft that wants to ride a bmx bike thats bigger but still proportional.
AnonymousPlease change the graphics! They look like old school mongoose frame stickers!
AnonymousBoth really nice bikes. If I had to pick I would pick the left bike. Right now I have a Mirraco bikes and im saving up for a Sunday bike. Im ok I can do a 360 rollout and a full 360.
JonhHonestly, I think as long as it comes in a 21.5 or larger it’ll be sick. I’m only 6 foot, but I feel cramped on my 20″, so this would be awesome to have. I do think a 15.25 CS would be better than a 15.5, but we have to trust the few that actually HAVE ridden them. I love my first Wave, so I trust Sunday to make a legit 24.
Good luck guys!
Van Charles-Van
The geo is just perfect! I love high bb and longer reareand. i wish you offered 11.9 bb on your 20″ frames..
alex89I wonder if the future of bmx freestyle and bmx racing will be to have 21 or 22 inch wheels. then they won’t look so much like we are riding “little kids bikes”.
PatrickFrameset only. High bb! yeah! perfect for all around riding. 14mm, please. Thanks for thinking outside the bike box. location: NC
bambamid like to see it as a set, but thats mainly because i ride a good amount of trails and flowtracks and can get away with putting race rims and shit on my bikes
john mccabeI always wondered what some one like Mat Hoffman could do on vert with a longer, more stable setup like a 24″ bike. I’ll bet a good vert rider could SKY on a 24″er
jasonThis is probably the nicest bike I’ve ever seen.
GageAlthough it may be a cruiser, this bike should kick some ass.
do i see odyssey hazard lites in 24”
clutchAwesome, I cant wait to see that on the streets
NoobcakeOMG NOOBS look out wit the bangin stuff this funky crap will do wit the balance on all humanity!! ah ha
wow geekMake it in a 22 Inch top tube ,14.50 CS ,Built in pivotal seat post like your other frame.BB height is great how you have it.Enough room for 2.10 rear tire.And some nice strong night forks.
TOMOH and make it gloss black with some cool writing on it.Keep it New style not Old school
Also add some removable brake mounts under the seat stay.
TOMYou should change the fish graphics around.Put the big fish eating the smaller fish and the smaller fish eating the tiny fish
TOMhey tom. i got a suggestion for you. you should start your own bike company. and ill just tell you what to make.
jerry seinfeildWell Jerry
TOMJim asked for input,I gave mine
why would you want re-movable brakes on a 24″ cruiser their a race bike
christhe bike looks really good can u make it with a freecoaster wheel?
joehey jim the bike looks really good can u put a freecoaster wheel on it?
joe